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talking with cthulu, founder and leader of mistigris..

Session Start: Sat Nov 25 10:51:30 1997

*** Now talking in #cthulu *** Cthulu sets mode: +o dngrmouse

*** Cthulu changes topic to "CTHULU - THE CHANNEL - THE INTERVIEW"

Dangermouse:
tell me some things.. your real name, age, sex(y/n?), hobbies.. etc..

Cthulu:
real name: rowan james lipkovits, (pronounced how it sounds - LIP - KO - VITS)
age: 18
sex: male, and when possible
hobbies: hm. this, really 8), I've played piano for 15 years (s'right - since i was 3), so I also track, etc... I write a bunch.

Dangermouse:
you look older in yer photo

Cthulu:
8)
heck, that photo is 3 years oldl 8) I've had a beard since I was 15, yes.

Dangermouse:
so, when did you first get involved in the scene.. the preverbial modem and bulletin board?

Cthulu:
started using a modem once I got a real computer - an IBM xt (a fair sight better from my TRaSh-80 from radio shack 8), zooming along at 1200 baud

Dangermouse:
whoa

Cthulu:
I guess that would be about 7 years ago.. no, 9.. when I was... 9, yes. The first few years of that were spent downloading crap. Amassing files one by one, v e r y s l o w l y, eventually I got a brand-new 14.4 that I paid for with a year's allowance and was propelled into the warez scene.

So I spent the next few years downloading crap as well. Then from there into the art scene, and you have the standard model.

You could spend 6 hours uploading fast warez to get file points.. or you could spend 3 hours drawing an ansi... or 6 minutes writing a lit 8) I did the math, and decided that I'd become a lit writer.

Dangermouse:
Did you just go straight into setting up a group? or did you join a few local jobs to begin with?

Cthulu:
The internet wasn't a big force back then, in like '92... and LD was only accessable through the hardcore phreaks - there was a bunch of that going on back then. group leaders used calling cards gotten illegally... So being in a local group was the only option.

Actually,I never even considdered being in a group until one group leader made a call for members.

"anyone who can draw ansi,write lit, compose mods, or whatever - join my group!@" ..more or less.

I'd never done any of those, but didn't think it could be too hard. So for 3 months I was part of NWA's (new wave artist's) music department. I didn't produce anything, so eventually I was downgraded to lit. NWA turned into Imperial when it merged with the original Grip, Imperial was ranked as a top 5 group and, well,I found myself an audience. And they all said one thing: "lit sucks," and I was like, "hey,don't discriminate against me."

Dangermouse:
they still do... ..unfortunately :)

Cthulu:
Then I took a quick look at my own first 2 or 3 lits and went, "gee, wow, my lit does suck. almost all lit sucks." Thought, "Gee, I should stop writing poems to get file points and start writing to express ideas and develop skill."

let's see if I can dig up one of my first lits...

Cthulu:
and that was one of the best of my first lits. Back then, the rule was, "make it about a bbs name, make it rhyme and make it colourful." This originally had a lovely red/dark grey colour scheme 8)

Anyway... the inevitable happens, and this top 5 group I'm in, imperial, dies... kaput.. And I'm like, gee, well, I'm just out of a top 5 group, surely someone else will try to pick me up.. and all the ansi artists found new homes, and all of the coders found new homes, and all of the lit writers were left standing around looking for a group. No-one would take us, because 99% of the lit was crap and the 1% that remained wasn't read by anyone 8)

Cthulu:
so, I was like, "Screw this." "If no group will take me, I'll have to make my own group!", and thus mistigris was born. Carrying with it a stigma as a lit group which has lasted to this day.

Dangermouse:
so, how long as mistigris been around now? how has it grown over the years?

Cthulu:
Mist was never an all-lit group. We've always had ansi, code, music, vga... well, pretty much, whatever we could get our hands on 8)

The problem was that when the ansi artists got good, they went to more elite groups and left us. (for instance- the majority of integrity was made of former mist members). While when the lit writers got good... they had nowhere else to go. So the ansi in mist stayed at a certain level, and the lit level increased and got better and better, but still no one would read it because everyone knows that all lit is crap!

Cthulu:
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy - if people expect it to be crap, then the artist has no onus to make it any better, because anything with effort invested in it will just be ignored. So really, I write for fellow mist members 8)

Cthulu:
to recap my answer for you; i started in small groups but was forced to found mist just to have a place to be in 8)

-- tea break!

*** Cthulu is now known as Cth^Eatin

<Cth^Tapio> just chowin' down on some tapioca puddin'.
<Cth^Tapio> yum.
<dangermouse> hmm
<dangermouse> haha
<dangermouse> ok just finished with maestro

*** Joins: Ezos (IKnowWhoUR@man-as6s26.erols.com)

<Cth^Tapio> okay.
<Cth^Tapio> hm.
<Cth^Tapio> I"ll see if I can bring the puddin' down to me computer.
<Cth^Tapio> sec...

<Cth^Tapio> mm.
<Cth^Tapio> tapioca.
<Cth^Tapio> got it.
<Cth^Tapio> i'm back.
<Cth^Tapio> and i'm baaaa-aa-aaaad.

*** Cth^Tapio is now known as Cthulu

<dangermouse> ok
<dangermouse> lets go
<Cthulu> arright!@

<Cthulu> tapioca.
<Cthulu> let's go, girlyman.
<dangermouse> girlyman!?
<dangermouse> hehe

-- end tea break..

Dangermouse:
so, mistigris, how is the group structured? an easy going group? or an ACiD? :)

Cthulu:
well,back in the OLD day... we wanted to break down doors.. level the playing field.

Cthulu:
take the power from the group-running class and put it in the hands of the artists! So for a few months, mistigris was democratically run. Honest. We voted on everything. New members, group policy, names, dates, formats... and as time went on, fewer and fewer people voted, until eventually there were only 5 or 6 people who voted,so they essentially ran the group.

Dangermouse:
ahh.. that's a new one.. i mean, i haven't heard of many groups doing that.. there's usually a 'dictator' at the top :)

Cthulu:
well, we went from a democracy where evreyone is equal, to an anarchy where the loudest ones got the power and everyone else had to live with it.

Dangermouse:
haha, like greece :> But the opposite sorta [yeah..umm]

Cthulu:
and look where they are today 8) anyway. AAAaaanyway. It was decided that we needed some sort of leader figure. Some sort of figurehead, some chairman to represent the decisions made by this executive council. And, well, because it was my idea to make the group in the first place... that became me... naturally... :)

As members changed groups and dropped out of the scene, we lost more and more members of this executive council until it was entirely composed of... me. Originally, I didn't want this power. I scolded members for not voting. I tried to defame myself, but nothing would work. I tried to tell them that no one would take serious an art group run by a lit writer.. and look where we are now 8)

Cthulu:
"Mist... that's a lit group,right?" bleah.

Dangermouse:
Where do you see mistigris heading from here? look to the future...

Cthulu:
The future? ahhhhhhh yes. We're up to very interesting things on almost all fronts.

Things like getting writing published in magazines, books in the real world...

Musically, several members and associated people are pressing CDs, getting played at local raves... We're working on getting access to some local radio time...

A bunch of mist members are involved in Dream Factory, a comic book project...

We're silkscreening t-shirts ourselves...

And are slowly working on a giant WWW complex which will never get completed 8)

Dangermouse:
Going into the professional world? .. a BIG step..

Cthulu:
Not so much going into the professional world as finding a bigger audience.. For instance - it has been said that within the art scene mist has the best lit department, the best music department, the best ascii department ... but then why the heck are we catering to ansi bums, who, the first thing they do when they unzip a pack is "del *.lit *.asc *.s3m"?

Dangermouse:
Haha, hey, that's not true man!

Cthulu:
Truer with the lit than with anything else 8)

Dangermouse:
del *.lit ... woops

Cthulu:
But yeah, to broaden our appeal... We led a 3 person expedition to the crash '97 demoparty in calgary, where we placed in the music compos, the graphics compos and won the ansi compo 8), thus opening up some contacts in the demoscene... and hence people who'll be interested in that music we're putting out.

Considering that half of our 10 meg anniversary pack was music, this is a side we can't afford to ignore. We've got to show our strong side to people who can appreciate it. Ansi bums will go " they're padding it with music 'cause they don't have enough ansi!"

*** Joins: othe||o (nexgen@kelly2-859.resnet.drexel.edu)

<othe||o> ummm no

Cthulu:
while music bums will go "hey! 5 megs of music! that's pretty nifty."

Cthulu:
othello - wrong cthulu,mango.

*** Parts: othe||o (nexgen@kelly2-859.resnet.drexel.edu)

Cthulu:
I share my nick with someone who runs #gaycollegeboys. ahem.

Dangermouse:
haha :)

On a similar front.. where do you see the scene heading as a whole?

Cthulu:
the scene is splintering. Oldschool is only alive in the hearts of a few of us left. Those who remember nation and tribe and union... and acid 8)

So we need to pull ourselves togther and take ourselves seriously. Ansi artists are capable of amazing things, but they're all laid low by petty infighting and low self-worth. The demo scene has accomplished incredible things by acting professional about their abilities and I think that we can at least match their capabilities.

Dangermouse:
have you read maestro's new "my message to the scene" article?

Cthulu:
I haven't read his message to the scene, and I don't think that anyone has read inquisitor's message to the scene in kithe 14.. pity.

Dangermouse:
basically what he was getting to was, ansi is ART -- not a BBS..

Cthulu:
Historically, the context has always affected the medium. Ansi is an interesting historical footnote, but if bbs culture dies, ansi loses its relevance.. Mist relies heavily on bbses. The 604 area code, vancouver, bc, canada, where we're based has upwards of a thousand boards. We've seen BBSse die away in other ACs and the art scene die a little bit with each one, but that's no excuse for the individual not to create.

Dangermouse:
yeah it has.. but now i feel the ansi scene has to change..

Cthulu:
The tools exist for us to be a strong global community as well as strong local ones

Dangermouse:
art must be done for the sake of the art..

Cthulu:
"art for the artists" was mistigris' first motto

Dangermouse:
exactly.

Cthulu:
But if the audience isn't taken into account... Then it's just so much mental masturbation. There's no reason to use archaic formats unless they'll be applied on archaic systems. Things are done for symbolic value and practical. We need to find a balance between them.

Too practical, and art devolves to a kitschy kind of 'craft', doing it just because it's difficult to do, not neccessarily because better results are capable of being gotten. Too symbolic and it means nothing to anyone but the creator.

That's a problem I have with my writing sometimes. 8)

Dangermouse:
Well, what do you remember of the old days, the groups -- the people? The atmosphere as a whole..

Cthulu:
Feuding city-states. It was healthy for a regionally competing kind of community, but we're only following that model for a global community. We need to find a better model. We need to either raise eliteness to where it once was, or destroy it once and for all. We want to move into the future, but we're afraid to give up what we have of tradition. Enough waffling.

We either need to decide one way or another, or else agree on a compromise. That's my opinion of that.

Cthulu:
Either make it all political, or get rid of politics altogether.

Dangermouse:
well, we'll probably wrap it up there man.. been nice talking to ya..

Cthulu:
I'll just say this - if you want to engage me in a dialogue regarding the views I have expressed here.. I can be reached at valentine@infomatch.com

and if you agree with them (or even not), Mistigris is always looking for members and guests 8)

Session Close: Sat Nov 25 12:43:35 1997